1911 Forums : 1911Talk banner
1 - 20 of 45 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Give me your opinions, guys. What's so bad about it? Do you consider it to be extra parts, that perhaps can fail ya when your life depends on it?

If so, what's the harm in just removing the part in the frame, the block itself in the slide, and the spring behind it? Just involves removal/replacement of the rear sight (a pain, of course, but doable), and of course a detail strip of the frame.....any harm in just getting rid of these parts?

My Custom II has been reliable after initial extractor issues were solved. Have heard both opinions about the Schwartz firing pin safety....big deal, yes or no?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
I don't like it.

The first gun I had with it- a TLE II- was having odd failures to fire. It didn't do it the first time out when I was just shooting for groups, but did the next time when I was practicing like I usually do by drawing , moving, etc. I couldn't figure out what changed until I realized it was variances in my grip. If it was a little less than ideal, I got the failures to fire.
If the grip safety was ANYTHING short of absolutely all the way compressed, it allowed the trigger to be pulled but wouldn't pull the firing pin block clear.

I think the system should be timed so the grip safety releases the firing pin block before the trigger. If it allows the trigger to move-the gun should be able to fire.

I looked at some Series II Kimbers after that in a gunshop, and they were timed all over. Some released the firing pin block early in the travel, some right at the end like mine, and others fell in between.

I got mine fixed, but don't think it should have left the factory that way.

I'm also concerned about wear. All the involved parts will wear, and even though they shouldn't wear much, the tolerances will stack if they do. If the grip safety pivot wears a little, and it's contact point with the fp block parts wear a little, and the each of the fp block parts wear a little, it adds up. Maybe enough to fail to release the fp sometime important. Just grab the grip safety and wiggle it. There is play there already, and there will be more as the gun is used.

If you have two guns, one with, and one without, the fp "safety": Be careful doing detail strips of the slide. You just might accidentally mix up the firing pins so the Series II gun gets a standard firing pin with no groove for the fp block to engage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,029 Posts
Extra parts plus that design is prone to Fail if you don't have a good Grip for a while there were posts about them not going boom and it was grip safety setup
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,072 Posts
I don't like the swartz safety. Colt tried it long ago and dumped it, as bud says it's dependent on the grip safety and those have failed. I'm not a big fan of series 80 either, but it can be removed easily and not prone to failure as the swartz is.

You have to decide if it's a big deal to YOU, to some it is and some it is not.
 

·
I need a vacation
Joined
·
1,301 Posts
It's just more parts,which goes against my KISS philosophy.

It also may cause a problem when the grip safety does not allow the plunger to drop all the way...then you can hardly get the slide off. I had to file the msh down on my TLE to allow the plunger to drop.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Interesting.....very valid points. Mine seems to be timed right, releases the FP block before trigger pull/hammer fall. And it does go flush with the frame when the Grip Safety's not depressed.

So what would be wrong with just doing away with these 3 parts in a Series II gun? Anything at all?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
565 Posts
It's just more parts,which goes against my KISS philosophy.

It also may cause a problem when the grip safety does not allow the plunger to drop all the way...then you can hardly get the slide off. I had to file the msh down on my TLE to allow the plunger to drop.
I'am with you KISS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,029 Posts
Interesting.....very valid points. Mine seems to be timed right, releases the FP block before trigger pull/hammer fall. And it does go flush with the frame when the Grip Safety's not depressed.

So what would be wrong with just doing away with these 3 parts in a Series II gun? Anything at all?

usually Disabling or removing a Safety is bad Ju Ju
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,072 Posts
I don't particularly see making a 1911 where it functions as the vast majority of 1911's out there as a problem. Disabling a thumb safety or grip safety is something different as pretty much all 1911's have these. In order for them to rule that gun unsafe they would have to rule all series 70 guns unsafe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
No, of course you wouldn't want to disable a thumb safety or grip safety. As you guys all know, it is possible to "desensitize" the grip safety, but that's internal, usually no big deal. Of course we wouldn't want to do that on a Scwartz-equipped 1911......

So Bud White, you say disabling a safety device is bad ju ju.....you mean legally, of course, correct? As when your pistol is examined as evidence after a defensive shooting, it's something that could be used against you? Surely this could be refuted by an "expert witness" on the subject, but they cost money, and yeah, it's just more trouble, correct?

But other than that, technically, removing the Swartz system isn't bad for the gun itself, right? Having a couple of extra holes here and there, wouldn't be a place for debris to collect, would it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
108 Posts
Kimber's Swartz safety is not as easy to remove as the Colt Series 80 safety is.

It is necessary to remove the rear sight to remove the Schwartz parts. This can be a real PIA.

Simplest solution is to get a series 70/ pre-Series 70 firing pin and replace the one in the Schwartz or Series 80 gun.

Potential problem solved...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,029 Posts
No, of course you wouldn't want to disable a thumb safety or grip safety. As you guys all know, it is possible to "desensitize" the grip safety, but that's internal, usually no big deal. Of course we wouldn't want to do that on a Scwartz-equipped 1911......

So Bud White, you say disabling a safety device is bad ju ju.....you mean legally, of course, correct? As when your pistol is examined as evidence after a defensive shooting, it's something that could be used against you? Surely this could be refuted by an "expert witness" on the subject, but they cost money, and yeah, it's just more trouble, correct?

But other than that, technically, removing the Schwartz system isn't bad for the gun itself, right? Having a couple of extra holes here and there, wouldn't be a place for debris to collect, would it?

thats what im saying .. no it wont hurt the gun to remove it
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
155 Posts
I didn't like the Swartz system when it came out but ran accross a decent deal on a Custom II and bought it with all intentions of nuetering the Swartz safety. 3200 rds later and I still haven't gotten around to taking it out, simply because it hasn't give me any trouble. Ended up buying a Pro Carry II a little later and the same holds true with it, no problems. Not saying they can't cause problems, just saying none of mine has.

Good luck,
Zack
Shooters Plus
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Kimber's Swartz safety is not as easy to remove as the Colt Series 80 safety is.

It is necessary to remove the rear sight to remove the Schwartz parts. This can be a real PIA.

Simplest solution is to get a series 70/ pre-Series 70 firing pin and replace the one in the Schwartz or Series 80 gun.

Potential problem solved...
are you saying that a 70 series FP install will disable a Swartz safety system?



is the FP on the top a series 70 firing pin? i know for a fact the bottom one is a 80 series Wilson FP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
108 Posts
Yes
Yes
 

·
I need a vacation
Joined
·
1,301 Posts
I didn't like the Swartz system when it came out but ran accross a decent deal on a Custom II and bought it with all intentions of nuetering the Swartz safety. 3200 rds later and I still haven't gotten around to taking it out, simply because it hasn't give me any trouble. Ended up buying a Pro Carry II a little later and the same holds true with it, no problems. Not saying they can't cause problems, just saying none of mine has.

Good luck,
Zack
Shooters Plus
I would add what you just said to my earlier post. While I don't like the Series II mechanism, I'm not so strongly opposed to it that I won't own a Kimber,and I have no intention of changing mine out because like you,I haven't had any functional problems with the Swartz system.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,288 Posts
:hairpull:

The inventors name was Swartz not Schwartz, William L. Swartz, he was a Colt engineer.
 
1 - 20 of 45 Posts
Top