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To Para-Ordinance or Not???

10K views 14 replies 12 participants last post by  powder&lead 
#1 ·
Hello,

I've been thinking about purchasing a Para P-1445. I like the double stack mag. with its increased capacity. After browing several reviews on the Internet, I had the impression that previous P-14s had feeding problems, but current models had eliminated this. So I trotted down to my local gun club and rented one.

The feeding problem was horrible! Worse than I had read about. The upshot was I was relieved that I had only rented one instead of buying.

After E-mailing the Para folks directly, they informed me that, "The newest 1445s have been improved as compared to the previous 2 or 3 years." They then stated, "I would suggest looking at forums and post the question there." So here I am. They encouraged me to ask about the "new EGW as opposed to the PXT or power extractor."

Hence, I'm looking for feedback. Do you have a new Para P14? How do you like it? Any problems with feeding and/or other types of jamming programs?

Let me know.
 
#2 ·
My first Para gun as a P14 gun kit I got from a fellow officer from a couple cases of beer! Kit was new in box, I put a blue Colt upper on it, polished the feed ramp with my Dremel tool, put Millett adjustable sights on it. It felt wonderful, fed everything in my LEO/reloader/duty issue JHP inventory 100% and was accurate as hell! I killed 2 feral hogs in LA and a doe in AL with iton dog drives. Sadly it was stolen in a burglary in 2000. A local SO recovered it on a traffic stop/drug bust, but since insurance had paid me for it the SO condemned it to SO use. I'm happy with that- a strong active young SWAT team member is carrying a double stack 5" 1911 with good sights that will take care of him for the rest of his career! I carry a ParaWart Hog now and find it 100% reliable with my extensive JHP +P duty/reload ammo.
 
#4 ·
Don't know how soon I'll be buying, but my next gun will be 14-45.
 
#5 ·
The "new" Para USA guns are excellent quality and so far, of the 5 models I've had opportunity to shoot somewhat extensively, 100% reliable with quality ammunition. I currently have two Paras, not yet in production, on order... a Tomasie and a BO Recon.
The EGW brand extractor that they now use is perhaps the finest quality on the market. I'd go so far as to say that many EGW components are, arguably, the finest of their type... barrel bushings, sears, firing pin stops, grip safeties... and extractors.

I would not hesitate buying a new Para... they are, when compared to equivalent guns, a bargain. :shades:

C
 
#6 ·
New to this forum so might be responding an old thread. I have carried my P14 for probably 10 years everyday as a police officer and have about 13000 rounds thru it without a bobble. I did have Novaks do an action and trigger job on it. Great weapon. I recently hit it against a door jam and broke the safety. Ordered one from brownells and it locked up the slide and couldnt get it out. Finally got it out and ordered one from Para and it dropped right in and works great.
Mac
 
#9 · (Edited)
There are unquestionably many new Paras out there that are working. Unfortunately, there are far too many that are not.
I've wanted a 14.45 Para since they were Para Ordnance in Canada. And they had really good guns by all accounts then.
Then they moved to North Carolina. I waited for production to start up and the new, awesome-looking models to start shipping.
Then, it became very public that the new Para-USA was far from having a handle on QA/QC. It was widely known that they were shipping crap.
So I waited a good bit longer. And I too heard stories that they had things under control. I quickly ordered the beautiful 14.45 Black Ops.
It has been to the shop twice for jamming problems. When I got it back after the first trip - where they said it functioned 100% on the work order - it was FAR worse than it was when I sent it in for repairs. It wouldn't feed anything I tried. So I sent it in the second time.

After extensive studying of the issue, having private conversations with a Para rep, the problem became clearly due to the magazines not riding high enough for the rounds to hit the barrel ramp at the proper point. They were constantly hitting the edge of the frame under the barrel ramp. Soft bullets, with soft plated "jackets" would dig into that edge and stop hard. Harder bullets would generally get passed the edge but, after having hit it first, had lost so much momentum that the slide wouldn't go to battery.

And I'm not alone. Not by far. And these are the "new" design magazines. Experimentation proved that the problem was as described above.
So on the 2nd trip in, Para cut a "pre-ramp" into the frame under the barrel ramp to help guide the round onto the barrel ramp. That has "helped". However, it is too steep, as the gun was never designed to have that ramp there in the first place. Thus, many rounds still have problems because they hit that steep "pre-ramp" and the do get started upward towards the real barrel ramp, but by then the slide still has often lost too much momentum to go to battery.

I definitely wouldn't recommend purchasing one for home defense or self defense. This is a very common problem. Your life is worth a few hundred more dollars for a dependable weapon.
I have more testing to do, especially with my preferred defense rounds. But if it will not feed my preferred defense ammo flawlessly, then I will probably trade it and the 12 magazines I have for something else at the nearest Gun & Pawn. I may see if Para is willing to give me a new gun. But I have no confidence in it.

Like I said, there are many out there that seem to be working. But too many that don't.

Plus QC/QA issues that should never get by the most simple-minded person. Like loose sights - in one case - a front sight was so loose it fell out when the owner picked it up out of the case for the first time. In another case, a person bought one of the cheaper, black Nitron-coated cast-frame models. The frame wasn't properly machined and the grip safety was not properly fitted to the weapon. They "kludged" it and sent it back to him when they really probably should have given him a new gun.

I still want a Para 14.45 so badly. But I certainly would never recommend one for defense use.

The really need to do another re-design of the magazine. I believe that would fix the problem. It needs to lock higher so that the top round will ride higher in the pistol, relative to the barrel ramp. However, you would not be able to load the full 14 rounds in the magazine that way. The magazine would need to be extended beyond the base of the grip - not by much - to allow the full 14-round capacity. But I think that would fix it once and for all, without a complete re-design of the pistol. I'm not a gunsmith. Just an engineer.

If you want a fun range gun to tinker with and maybe customize, that might be a way to go. But if you want a combat pistol that you can stake the lives of you and your family on, please save a couple of hundred dollars more and pick something else. You can get absolutely, 100% reliable out-of-the-box combat pistols from the major brands for not much more, by shopping around. I didn't buy mine for carry. I prefer Sig DA/SA pistols for carry and home defense (due to familiarity). But as the Black Ops is intended to be a combat pistol, I expect it to function. After closing in on 1000 rounds down the pipe now (I haven't added them all up between what I've shot and what the factory shot during testing after the repairs), it should be well past this so-called break in period.

I know some are going to think I'm just bashing Para. But honestly, I'm not bashing Para. Para-USA's customer service is increadible. The fantastic shooter, Mr. Travis Tomasie, is the face of Para now. He has been increadible on handling customer problems and working to improve Para's rep. But they are still having far too many serious problems to stake your life on, in my humble opinion. I just want to make sure that you know before you buy.

I'm going to pay closer attention to their quality and may try them again in the future. I hope it gets better. Because I still like that high-cap 1911. :)

Check out the numerous threads and postings on quality issues of the new Para-USA pistols at the "other" forum: Para USA - 1911Forum
 
#10 ·
#14 ·
I own 2 Para's and have had great luck with them. I just bought a fullsize Para Elite Stainless, over 500 rounds down the pipe with out a hiccup. I am using it as my EDC.
Welcome to the forum......congrats on the old and new pistola. Tracy
 
#15 ·
I can't tell you how many thousands of rounds I've run through mine and several of my friends Paras - but these new ones are far and above the best. I've not seen the issues with the double stacks since the extractor change a couple years ago and that ionbond finish is incredible. I'm saving now for an Executive - shot one a few weeks ago and it was a tack driver and the bobtail frame really feels good in the hand!
 
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