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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I had thought the porthole series 80 design was sig's even though caspian started off making the slides and frames, but apparantly it's caspians as they have them also. That makes me think probably all of the frame/slide combo's with this on it are caspians.



 

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I'm pretty sure that it is/was a SIGARMS design, executed by Caspian to SIG's specifications. While the porthole/manhole access port is now gone (due to safety system and slide mods) it continued to be present for awhile on slides produced in-house by SIGARMS after they assumed slide production; my XO is a 6000 serial number gun, and has it.

Best, Jon
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Then why do caspian series 80 slides have it? Those pictured above are caspians with the same porthole except that it takes ascrewdriver to remove it.
 

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Probably because Caspian wanted to capitalize on the joint venture that they embarked upon with SIG-particularly so after SIG chose to produce the GSR slide and frame on their own, eliminating Caspian as the vendor for the components, reportedly after ongoing dimensional issues with the Caspian supplied components. Caspian still sells a renamed and thinly disguised "kit" of these basic components, along with matched (if desired) Storm Lake barrels, also originally OEM production for the first generation of GSR's. I would assume that these are essentially the remnants or surplus from the SIGARMS contract. I don't think that you'll find that Caspian produced such slides prior to their association with SIGARMS, ony concurrently with and subsequently to. After producing the components themselves, SIG chose to modify the firing pin safety system, eliminating the need for the "porthole/manhole." I would imagine that eliminated any non-compete issues, if there were any regarding the part.

Best, Jon
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I don't claim to know for certain, but going on the fact that caspian still makes them and sig does not it would be odd that it would be sig's design.

I'm aware that sig did away with the porthole, but are you certain sig made them in house with the porthole themselves before doing away with them? I was told by george at EGW that caspian made the frames while they made parts (along with a list of greats parts manufacurers) for them which was between 500 and a little over 7000. I can tell most of the parts he mentioned by sight.

Also, where do you get your info from? Not doubting you, just curious if you have inside info.
 

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There has been a huge amound of information of the GSR development, vendor selection, and vendor issues. In print, some of the best were from SIG-Sauer's in-house magazine (sadly, now moribund) Velocity. There have been some very knowledgeable posts on the www.sigforum.com website, including a VERY lengthy one that actually went on for more than a year initiated by the GSR's primary developer, Matt McLearn. Bruce Gray, Patrick Sweeney and Massad Ayoob have had lengthy articles on the GSR in book and magazine articles-theirs tend to be the most detailed and knowledgeable.

On the "manhole" issue, one of Bruce Gray's articles is the primary source of my information. Although not officilly affiliated with SIG-Sauer, Bruce has a very close relationship with them, and is probably recognized as the premier SIG-Sauer gunsmith in the country by knowledgeable SIG owners. Matt has also discussed the firing pin safety system.

Again, although in the overall scheme of gun development trivia it's probably irellevant, based on the sources above, I firmly believe that it was SIGARMS who engineered the firing pin safety system with the "manhole" access port as part-and-parcel of the GSR's external extractor system, and Caspian who merely executed it, not vice-versa.

Best, Jon
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
That's fine and it could be true that caspian originally made it for sig, I was just guessing since they still sell it. Both of mine are in the 5000's and George Smith of EGW told me he was making parts like the extractor, bushing and some internal parts on models from 500 to a little over 7000. He also named other parts manufacturers, such as wilson, greider and named caspian as making the frame and slide during that same time. George is a VERY hands on person in his business and I have no reason to disbelieve him. Your xo would fall into that category.

I do know who Bruce Gray is by the way but I would think george, who was making parts for them, would be more in the know about who was making what during that time frame.

None of it is certain, but I just do not consider george as less credible than bruce.
 
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