[Bud White]

Or never let it run to slide lock ..

In the Ed brown Paper work this is listed as one of the Key things of getting the most out of your guns..

I have never seen it in print before but have heard it ..

What is everyones take on it and have you seen it written anywhere else .. Esp from a Gun Maker

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Its a good practice...and it makes for faster reloads.
You don't have to drop the slide (so there goes the slingshot vs. slide stop argument )
Just stuff in a mag and keep shooting.

The darndest thing about it is being able to keep up with how many rounds you have left...this isn't easy when the pressure is on.

I have read about it a few places...but most of the experienced guys I know laugh about it...mainly because its next to impossible to keep up with round count in a fight.

 

[OD*]

Probably not a bad idea.
Like you, I had never seen it in print (owners manual).

 

[longtooth]

Never seen it in print but this has been my practice habit for a long, Long, time. I too have not been able to keep definate count under pressure.
The one thing I have found is I can realistically do what I call a short fight reload (tactical reload but was doing this before I knew that word) w/o letting it go to slide lock or w/o necessarily remembering exactly how many I have shot.
Never seen this one in print either.
What I do.
2 BGs or even 3. I practice 1 shot on first then 2 on the next one or 2 BGs. Return to #1 for another shot or 2 if necesary.
When I consider all immediate threat targets nutralized I immeditely drop my mag & reload my extra mag, a 10rd, while scanning for outlying threats and moving to cover.
I know I may have one or two left in my gun mag but would rather have 2 on the ground & 11 in my gun than 3 in my gun & 10 on my belt.
My practice & others may vary.

 

[fiddletown]

A short while back I took a class from Louis Awerbuck (Tactical Reality and More Tactical Reality), and he offered a somewhat different perspective. He was not a fan of the tactical reload.

In his view, if you are in a fight, you keep shooting until the fight is over. If you run dry, you do a speed reload as quickly as you can. But if there's threat, you don't stop shooting as long as you have ammunition. If that takes you to slide lock, so be it. You do a speed reload and get back to work.

In Awerbuck's view, a tactical reload makes sense only when you are with friends who can provide covering fire while you do it, or when there's a lull in the festivities.

A corollary to that is that one should avoid always engaging targets with any set number of rounds. Vary things so that you don't program yourself to assume that a threat is necessarily neutralized after any specific number of hits.

 

[ElrodCod]

Hogwash. In the real world you're gonna run your gun dry. You might as well train that way.

 

[Denis S]

I remember a thread on a 1911forum.com last year where an Ed Brown owner reported slide lock notch peening on his stainless EB. Showed pictures. Someone else mentioned that Ed Brown stainless alloy is softer than that used by other premium 1911 makers. Ed Brown fixed that for him, though. And one way to avoid it, of course, is to not run the gun dry.

Personally I'm not good enough to keep the round count when i shoot. I have enough trouble concentrating on the front sight and making sure I've engaged all the targets on the stage in the right sequence. When the slide doesn't return to battery, I can feel it, it recoils a bit different, and so I go for the fresh mag.

Slamming the fresh mag home as hard as possible will release the slide 2 times out of three, on my gun, so that's a time saver right there

 

[Snagglepuss]

Interesting discussion. I have never considered this scenario.:thinking:

 

[longtooth]

A short while back I took a class from Louis Awerbuck (Tactical Reality and More Tactical Reality), and he offered a somewhat different perspective. He was not a fan of the tactical reload.

In his view, if you are in a fight, you keep shooting until the fight is over. If you run dry, you do a speed reload as quickly as you can. But if there's threat, you don't stop shooting as long as you have ammunition. If that takes you to slide lock, so be it. You do a speed reload and get back to work.

In Awerbuck's view, a tactical reload makes sense only when you are with friends who can provide covering fire while you do it, or when there's a lull in the festivities.

A corollary to that is that one should avoid always engaging targets with any set number of rounds. Vary things so that you don't program yourself to assume that a threat is necessarily neutralized after any specific number of hits.

Agree completely here. If the fight is a long one I do not do a reload while "being shot at" until I am dry. Nutralize all BGs & do not know how many are still in the gun but not many. Do a reload here while scanning for other threats. Thou I have never read his work I agree that this is Awerbuck's "lull in the fight".
My reasoning behind one shot on the near guy then go to 2nd or 3rd & return if needed is, If I use 2,3,2 on 3 assailaints I am being shot at while getting back on target #1 for the double. #1 wounded is going to be slowed up, I hope.
I have trained to use #1 as my first cover. If I shoot & look away for cover to run to then I am not fighting. One shot into #1 & move so he is between me & #2. After engaging #2 & he is down go back to #1 if necessary. Now look around for cover while reloading.
If set up in a triangle engagement should be. #1 closest- one hit & sure needs to be the 1st shot. Move to put #1 between you & one of the BGs while engaging the 3rd then go back to 1 or 2.
Reality is that when shooting starts most but not all second & 3rd BGs will run. I have a wagon that I put a target in. A 100 ft nylon rope run through a pully makes a running BG. Whoever is pulling the runner decides if he is running away or fighting. Running away you cant shoot him. Puller hollers "gun" that makes him a fighter. Practicing is never able to cover all things that may happen. You can practice weak hand shooting becuase strong is wounded but you can never practice around pain.
We do the best we can w/ what we have to work with.

 

[OD*]

Personally I'm not good enough to keep the round count when i shoot. I have enough trouble concentrating on the front sight and making sure I've engaged all the targets on the stage in the right sequence. When the slide doesn't return to battery, I can feel it, it recoils a bit different, and so I go for the fresh mag.

Amen, brother.

 

[Bud White]

Hell i have a hard time keep count at the range i know i wont remember in a fight .. So i will be shooting to slide lock

 

[TraderJack]

In his view, if you are in a fight, you keep shooting until the fight is over. If you run dry, you do a speed reload as quickly as you can. But if there's threat, you don't stop shooting as long as you have ammunition. If that takes you to slide lock, so be it. You do a speed reload and get back to work.

My training has echoed this sentiment as well Frank.

Personally, I've always considered that anything bad that could happen, was going to happen, no matter what I did or how I trained.
'Murphy' was always going to be there!
All I could really do about it, was to give myself the best opportunity to succeed.
For me, that means training.

If I run the gun dry, so be it... If the gun jams, so be it...
I hope it doesn't happen, but I train to prepare myself for it, and rely on that training to succeed.

Good topic.

 

[Cap]

Or never let it run to slide lock ..

In the Ed brown Paper work this is listed as one of the Key things of getting the most out of your guns..

I can understand the debate pro and con for not running dry in a combat/defensive scenario

but how does running to slide lock damage a gun?
(if you want to get the "most out of your gun")


..L.T.A.

 

[Denis S]

but how does running to slide lock damage a gun?

please see post # 7 in this thread. That's not really an argument against shooting to slide-lock, just an observation with one particular gun. There should be no damage.

If the slide-lock notch does wear out to the point where it doesn't engage the slide stop, I think it's high time to retire this particular gun anyway. Or send it out for a fix. Things like that and firing pin hole erosion can be easily dealt with by a competent smith.

 

[Pappy]

My 1911s are for range use only. I prefer a short barreled revolver in the front pocket. Hand on w/o drawing attention.

Anyway, I prefer to go to slide lock simply to check mag/gun function.
If the SL tab doesn't fit the notch correctly, some issues need to be addressed. If not, of course there will be peening.