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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
It's not possible to own a Fusion Frame in California is it? I can buy the slide and everything else for one but not the frame-- is it a money thing? Does it cost too much to get on that approved BS list?

I was going through the Brownells 1911 catalog and noticed that I could build a All American made 1911 (wow what a concept huh). :crazy: So that is my goal-- I'll piece it out, I want to first start out with a frame and slide.

The slides and frame on Fusion's are made here is in the US right (the web site says it's CNC'ed but not where (I assume it is here though)? Hope so or I'm going to look like an arse. :whistle:
 

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It's not possible to own a Fusion Frame in California is it? I can buy the slide and everything else for one but not the frame-- is it a money thing? Does it cost too much to get on that approved BS list?

I was going through the Brownells 1911 catalog and noticed that I could build a All American made 1911 (wow what a concept huh). :crazy: So that is my goal-- I'll piece it out, I want to first start out with a frame and slide.

The slides and frame on Fusion's are made here is in the US right (the web site says it's CNC'ed but not where (I assume it is here though)? Hope so or I'm going to look like an arse. :whistle:

It's very possible.
 

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I don't know about the money thing so much as some of the manufacturer's just won't deal with california anymore. I think Springer has some models approved, but won't have anymore approved. I expect any large manufacturer will eventually have their California models, and just keep manufacturing them to keep some sales in CA, but their newer models just wont be able to make it over there.
 

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The only way, I'm afraid, that we'll be able to buy a Fusion in California will be (1) if someone bought it in another state, moves to California and then sells it in a fact-to-face transaction inside California; or (2) one is purchased by an LEO in California who later sells it in a private, face-to-face transaction in California.

First, a manufacturer must supply three examples of a complete handgun for testing. It has to be a complete handgun because the test procedure requires firing the gun. Therefore, for a manufacturer that sells bare frames, like Fusion or Caspian, there's no way to get the frame (which is the "gun" under federal law) approved.

Second, a gun is approved only in the exact configuration in which it was tested. Therefore, a manufacturer like Fusion (or Les Baer) must choose specific configurations to have tested, and then sell only those variations in California.

Third, since 1 January 2007, a gun can be added to the approved list only if it has both a loaded chamber indicator and a magazine disconnect. (Guns already on the list can stay as long as the maker continues to pay the annual fee.) So we'll see no new 1911s on the list.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You can't buy guns face to face in California-- it has to go through a FFL, and the pistol must be the BS "approved" list.

I got a PM from Fusion-- There is no way I can own a Fusion frame here in Ca. , but thank you for taking the time.

We are moving to Oregon once the market picks back up. Which sucks because I am a eighth generation Californian native (my family has been here since 1849) and I'm being pushed out of my own state by liberals, that in most cases weren't even born here! I love California it's got everything, but I can't let my son grow up in this SMOG, in a land that is surrounded by socialists pigs. :hairpull:
 

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You can't buy guns face to face in California-- it has to go through a FFL,...
You can indeed, and I have done so. But yes, it goes through a dealer. You both meet at a dealer who is mutually convenient and willing to handle matters, the buyer pays the seller; and the dealer does the paperwork and holds the gun for the ten day waiting period. The dealer usually, and quite properly, charges something for his trouble in addition to the government processing fees. Whether the buyer or seller pays those extras is a matter to be negotiated between them, but it's usually the responsibility of the buyer.

JPBeck said:
...the pistol must be the ... "approved" list...
This is not true. As stated in the heading of the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale (http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/ ) on the California DOJ website:

"Effective January 1, 2001, no handgun may be …, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model … is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice. Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement." (emphasis added)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
You can indeed, and I have done so. But yes, it goes through a dealer. You both meet at a dealer who is mutually convenient and willing to handle matters, the buyer pays the seller; and the dealer does the paperwork and holds the gun for the ten day waiting period. The dealer usually, and quite properly, charges something for his trouble in addition to the government processing fees. Whether the buyer or seller pays those extras is a matter to be negotiated between them, but it's usually the responsibility of the buyer.
Ok-- fine you can buy a pistol face to face-- but like we both said it still has to go through a FFL. It's not like the seller walks away from the face to face with the pistol in his or her hands. So we are getting lost in semantics.

Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement." (emphasis added)
That statement seems to be taken out of text-- I tried to transfer another PT1911 from my friend that moved here out of state and was told by my dealer that the pistol cannot be transfered because it is not on the approved roster. Your above statement got me curious so I called the Attorney General's office/ Bureau of Firearms (Phone: (916) 263-4887) they said that pistols must be on the approved list in order to be transfered from one person to another. So I'm going to go with that information.

Just so we are on the same page:
I asked "I am trying to transfer a pistol from my buddy who came from out of state into my name. The pistol is not on the CA. approved roster, can this be done?"
The answer I got was "No, if the pistol is not on the approved list it cannot be transfered into your name."
 

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Ok-- it still has to go through a FFL. It's not like the seller walks away from the face to face with the pistol in his or her hands. So we are getting lost in semantics.
I don't think it's really just a matter of semantics. Since private party transfers are exempt from the requirement that the pistol be on the list, this is how one can buy a pistol in California that's not on the list: a private party transfer through an FFL. The point isn't that you walk away with the gun immediately. The point is that you've been able to buy something you want that's not on the list.

The bad news, of course, is that you need to find someone handy in California who has the gun you want and is willing to sell it. Since supply is thus limited, you will generally pay a premium for a desirable, "off-list" gun.
 

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I have the solution to this - Joe, you send me the money and I'll order the pistol you want and hang on to it until you move. Once you move, I'll send it to you. If I haven't mysteriously "lost" it. :shades:
Seriously, the whole situation is just wrong. Obviously things are stacked against you and even if you could get this through, it sounds like a huge hassle to get things done and "right". I hate that you feel you have to move your family to escape the stupidity. THAT'S when you know things are bad.
Good luck,
Ryan
 

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...I asked "I am trying to transfer a pistol from my buddy who came from out of state into my name. The pistol is not on the CA. approved roster, can this be done?"
The answer I got was "No, if the pistol is not on the approved list it cannot be transfered into your name."
It's probably a problem with the way you asked the question. The person in the AG's office probably understood you to be asking about someone who has entered the State temporarily, as a visitor. And in that case, the answer is correct. It can't be done.

If the person in question moved to California, established residency, obtained a California driver license or State ID Card and properly registered his handgun(s) upon moving here, he is now a California resident legally owning a gun not on the list. As I read the law, he may now make a private party transfer to another California resident (unless perhaps it can be shown that he came to California, established residency, and brought the gun in for the primary purpose of selling).

And if you think that I quoted the DOJ statement out of context, all you had to do was follow the link I provided to the DOJ's Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale to read the statement in context and in its entirety.
 

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JP,
You wrote, "We are moving to Oregon once the market picks back up. Which sucks because I am a eighth generation Californian native (my family has been here since 1849) and I'm being pushed out of my own state by liberals, that in most cases weren't even born here! I love California it's got everything, but I can't let my son grow up in this SMOG, in a land that is surrounded by socialists pigs."

I have to tell you that if you are moving to Oregon to escape liberals, you are moving to the wrong place. I would venture to say that Oregon is more liberal than California. I live in Portland and I'm a pretty liberal Democrat (I'm probably going to be banned for saying so :wink:). As a member of this forum, it is also obvious that I'm a GUN NUT :nuts:!!! You have nothing to fear from the Democrats in Oregon as far as your gun rights are concerned. We have great gun laws here (it is extremely easy to get a CCW), and the state is beautiful. I hope that you and your family have a very happy existence here in Oregon, and I'm sure that you will find our unrestrictive gun laws very refreshing.
 

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The best thing I ever did was move out of california, and the democrats here are not anti gun by a long shot. That still does not change the fact that on the national level the democrats are the anti gun party. It doesn't have to be the local democrats that pass the gun laws, believe me obama is very anti gun and Biden is just plain off the charts anti gun.
 

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Jerry,

I agree about Obama and Biden's gun record, which is a big reason I was hoping Obama would pick Richardson as his running mate. I just don't feel like I can be a single issue person right now (even though the gun issue is extremely important to me), as I am very unhappy with the way our country has been run for the past 8 years. I actually really like Obama besides the 2nd amendment issues. I'm hoping that with all of the other things going on in the world right now that gun control will be a non issue for a while. If it does become a big issue to the next president (if it happens to be Obama), I hope and pray that the Supreme Court does their job and upholds the law and constitution.

With all of that being said, I hope that more Democratic gun owners step up and become more vocal towards the Democratic leaders. I must admit that I too need to do more within my party to ensure our 2nd amendment rights. I am a member of the Oregon Democratic Gun Owners Caucus, but as of yet, I have not really been very active.

I understand that firearms are very important to all of us here on this forum. I respect all of your (the forum member's) views political, or otherwise. I would be willing to bet that I'm the only Democrat on this forum, and I'm thankful that I didn't get lambasted for stating so. I am happy that there are common interests that can bring us all together, and I must say that I have very much enjoyed being part of this forum. You all are fountains of knowledge and well mannered, humorous individuals. Thanks for not banning me for my political views :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
It's not like your French or anything :biggrin:-- your just a Dem. It doesn't make you less of an American (unless your left of OHB, which would make you a Commie) in my book. :tongue:


Joe :flag:
 
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