Hk P7 Squeeze Cocker
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366 Posts
I dont have one but I sure do want one 
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174 Posts
I've got a PSP, I love it. It's creepy accurate with that fixed bbl. The only thing is that I need a lot more practice shooting it one hand only. Due to the squeeze cocker, i was pulling shots way to the left (I'm a righty) Mags are expensive, I managed to get some from CDNN at a decent price of $40.00 each.
I have a Milt Sparks VMII on order, that's the other problem with the P7 PSP, they take different holsters than the P7M8 etc.
As soon as I get it refinished and a good holster for it, I'd have no problem carrying it.
I have a Milt Sparks VMII on order, that's the other problem with the P7 PSP, they take different holsters than the P7M8 etc.
As soon as I get it refinished and a good holster for it, I'd have no problem carrying it.
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174 Posts
OK, sorry for the quality, it's almost bed time and I'm in a rush...
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You can see some of the differences between the PSP and the M8 in the first post.
The PSP is about half the cost of an M8, but has different sights, a Euro mag release, and no lanyard loop. There are some other differences, but I can't recall all of them at the moment.
I think my favorite thing about this gun, is that to release the slide, all you have to do is squeeze the cocker....that's just damn cool in my book.:notworthy:
You can see some of the differences between the PSP and the M8 in the first post.
The PSP is about half the cost of an M8, but has different sights, a Euro mag release, and no lanyard loop. There are some other differences, but I can't recall all of them at the moment.
I think my favorite thing about this gun, is that to release the slide, all you have to do is squeeze the cocker....that's just damn cool in my book.:notworthy:
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5,072 Posts
Do you know what the weight is JD?
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218 Posts
I finally bought one several months ago, and I now have three. I consider them to be great handguns.
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They are excellent for carrying since they are very compact and easy to conceal. They are just plain handy. Yes, I'd rather have a .45 than a 9mm, but with proper ammunition a 9mm can still be formidable. And there may be times when the ease of carrying and concealing a P7 is a fair trade off for the reduced power.
About a month ago I took an NRA Personal Defense Outside the Home class (with a bunch of other instructor as the first step toward us getting certified to teach this new NRA class). I decided to use one of my P7M8s, and it performed very well.
They are excellent for carrying since they are very compact and easy to conceal. They are just plain handy. Yes, I'd rather have a .45 than a 9mm, but with proper ammunition a 9mm can still be formidable. And there may be times when the ease of carrying and concealing a P7 is a fair trade off for the reduced power.
About a month ago I took an NRA Personal Defense Outside the Home class (with a bunch of other instructor as the first step toward us getting certified to teach this new NRA class). I decided to use one of my P7M8s, and it performed very well.
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174 Posts
Not off the top of my head, the HK website still has the P7M8 listed, so I should be able to find the specs....
Wait one...
I take that back, they have it listed, but with no weight listed in the specs.
I really want an M8, but I don't know if I'm willing to drop $1200 on one.
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218 Posts
Thank you Bud. The top holster is a Del Fatti ISP-LP (IWB), and the bottom is a Del Fatti LP-QS (snap on OWB). When I picked up my first P7, I checked with Lightning Arm Sports (http://www.lightningarms.com/products.htm ), and they had some in stock. I figured that this would be my best chance to get a Del Fatti without the two year wait.
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160 Posts
The P7 is my "in-between gun": For those odd times when I don't feel I can conceal a 1911 or HiPower well enough, but sure don't want to settle for a J-frame or Kahr.
I admit though, that I carry the P7 a lot of other times too. It's easy to carry, and I shoot it better than any other gun.
I heard and read a lot of stuff about the P7 before getting one about six years ago. I found that some of that info was good, but a lot was not.
I should have put two and two together and asked: How can so many people know so much about a gun so few people actually own?
I'm no expert on them, but know what I like and what I don't like from using them.
Overall, I like them.
But I'm not dedicated to them to the point I won't look at another gun. I usually carry either a 1911 or HiPower instead because I can usually "get away with" carrying a bigger gun...so I do.
But I'm fine with carrying a P7 since I like MOST things about them. But if I could, I would change a thing or two.
So hopefully, I'm giving some fairly balanced opinions.
First: I love the way they shoot.
I've had about every type of gun out there I can think of except a Springfield XD (yet). Nothing has been as easy for ME to shoot as a P7.
They are accurate, but that's only part of it.
-They are so easy to shoot fast. Whether it's the low bore height, the gas-locked system, the grip angle, or a combination- you fire a shot and it's back on target NOW.
-The trigger is great. It's very 1911-like, which makes it easy for me when I switch between those guns.
-The sights are OK. They have white three inserts, which I could live without, but they are OK. Tritium sights for the P7 are out there if you want.
-I've never had a malfunction with a P7. I'll have to look up the round count through my M8, but it's a bunch. It feeds everything I've tried. I use it to shoot up the junk that won't feed in other guns. The magazine sits as close to vertical as you'll see, which makes the cases feed almost straight into the chamber.
If it just shot well and was reliable, I could put up with a lot of thngs I didn't like. But I don't have to, because it has a lot of other good thngs about it.
The ergonomics are great. It handles fast, point well, the controls are easy and fast to use.
-The grip is "flat" feeling, but I don't recall hearing any complaints.
-The squeeze-cocker may seem odd (because it IS odd) but it's quick to pick up because it's pretty natural. You take a firing grip and you cock the gun. Relax your grip, and you decock the gun.
-The mag release on the PSP models is a European type heel release, which is clumsy to some people. I don't like it, but do better with it than I thought I would. At least they made it "backwards" from some other guns in that it is rocked down and forward to release the mag instead of having to pull it aft. It's fairly natural to sweep your weak hand thumb down across the mag catch as you take that hand off the grip.
When doing a Tactical Reload, it's not bad at all since you are working right there anyway.
-The mag catch on the P7M8 and P7M13 is a small paddle (ambidextrous)similar to that on HK's later USP series. I find it quick and easy to use my index finger. I might have thought it would a hard transition between my M8 and my 1911s and HiPowers, but I don't find that to be the case...somehow.
But some people find it harder to get used to than the squeeze-cocker, so keep that in mind.
-The slide release couldn't be easier.
I don't usually use the slide stop after a slide-lock reload with any gun, choosing to draw the slide back instead (to keep things the same on every gun), but if you do- it's impossible to miss the P7 slide release. It's the squeeze-cock lever. With the slide locked open, you squeeze the squeeze-cocker and it slams closed.
It's a great carry gun.
-It's that right size where it's small enough to carry like nothing, but big enough to shoot easily.
-It's a flat gun, which I always like for carry. There are no big controls on the sides, only a small bump or two.
-It's stubby, even though the barrel is a decent length at over 4". It gets that way because the barrel is set back farther in the frame than most guns.
The bad stuff (aside from not shooting the 45ACP or holding about 20 rounds):
-I hate the slide stop with a passion.
It's a little tab behind the trigger guard (LH side) that you press rearward while holdng the slide open. It's pretty awkward. I've never had a malfunction of any type in a P7, but if I should ever get one that required me to lock the slide open to clear, I'm in trouble (actually, I'll just be glad I usually have a second gun).
Maybe it isnt so bad, but it stands out because the gun is so easy to operate otherwise.
I guess it's out of the way.
The two complaints you usually hear from people about the P7 are:
1- Heating, and,
2- The unique method of operation.
They do get hot.
But I don't think it's as bad as I've heard some have made it out.
The gas system is a neat system and works well.
But the gas cylinder is located directly above the trigger guard opening and that area right above your finger can get hot.
I don't notice much heating with my M8. The M8 has a larger trigger guard with a plastic heat shield along the top of the trigger opening. It takes a lot fewer shots through the PSP to bother me.
But it still takes about 50 rounds for me to even notice it with the PSP, unless I'm shooting really fast. By then, I need to load mags and maybe change targets anyway, so the gun gets a little cool-down.
I sure don't see it being a problem as a defensive gun.
Some say it makes it less desireable as a range gun, but that doesn't really matter to me. I have more guns to shoot while it cools.
I used the M8 in a class last fall where I shot 530 rounds in about 5 hours of actual shooting time. I survived, didn't set myself on fire when I reholstered (IWB) etc.
-The other commonly heard negative of the P7 concerns it's "unique manual of arms". I don't know how many times I've been told "If you're going to carry a P7, then carry ONLY a P7". The thinking is that you will need it under stress (when else?), forget how it works, and fail to cock it.
During the time I didn't own one, that made sense to me.
Then I got one.
I don't see it.
I've already said the P7's operation is very natural. You take a firing grip, and you cock it. Regardless of which gun I'm shooting, I take a firm firing grip before pressing the trigger. With the P7, that cocks it.
I also sweep my thumb across the area where the thumb safety would be on a 1911/HiPower, which doesn't hurt a thing on the P7.
A lot of other people have shot my P7s (they draw a crowd) and none had trouble. I explained how it worked and let them at it.
Plus- some have shot it again months later. They picked it up and shot it just fine. None failed to cock it, even after going for months without even seeing a P7.
I don't see a problem switching guns as long as you are familiar with both.
So as far as I'm concerned, of those two things that I hear the most:
-The unique operation is a non-issue to me.
-The heating problem is real, but it's not terrible, and I can deal with it.
Also:
Some people think they...
- are too complicated, and have more parts in them than a Swiss watch...
- or they are too heavy...
The "more parts than a Swiss watch" thing: I can see how people would think that. If you take either grip panel off the gun, it looks like there are fifty parts right there. If there are that many there, there must be a thousand parts total, huh?
The thing is...when you take the grips off, you are looking at most of the gun's parts. There isn't much going on elsewhere. There is no barrel link system, barrel bushing, guide rod, or slide stop pin. The ignition system is pretty simple, and you are looking right at it. There is no firing pin safety system inside the slide.
I forget the exact count now, but a P7 has just maybe five or so more parts than a 1911- and the 1911 is about as uncomplicated as it gets. The P7 has about the same number of parts as many DA autos. I think the S&Ws may have a few more parts.
-People do complain about it's weight.
It has a steel frame, which makes it grip-heavy, so maybe it feels heavier than it really is to some.
But if you compare it's weight to similar 8+1 9mms, it falls right in line. The HK P7M8 weighs 27.25 oz on my scale. The Sig P239 weighs 25.2 oz, and the S&W 3913 is 26 oz. That makes the P7 2 oz heavier than the Sig and 1.25 oz more than the S&W.
I don't think that's much at all, and the HK is the only one with a steel frame. I have nothing against aluminum frames, but if I can have a steel frame for 2 oz or less added weight, I'll take it.
Like every other gun made, the P7 has good points and bad. Gunshop commandos will tell you it's either an automatic death ray or a gun that will get you killed. The truth is somewhere in the middle.
I think the good far outweighs the bad.
I admit though, that I carry the P7 a lot of other times too. It's easy to carry, and I shoot it better than any other gun.
I heard and read a lot of stuff about the P7 before getting one about six years ago. I found that some of that info was good, but a lot was not.
I should have put two and two together and asked: How can so many people know so much about a gun so few people actually own?
I'm no expert on them, but know what I like and what I don't like from using them.
Overall, I like them.
But I'm not dedicated to them to the point I won't look at another gun. I usually carry either a 1911 or HiPower instead because I can usually "get away with" carrying a bigger gun...so I do.
But I'm fine with carrying a P7 since I like MOST things about them. But if I could, I would change a thing or two.
So hopefully, I'm giving some fairly balanced opinions.
First: I love the way they shoot.
I've had about every type of gun out there I can think of except a Springfield XD (yet). Nothing has been as easy for ME to shoot as a P7.
They are accurate, but that's only part of it.
-They are so easy to shoot fast. Whether it's the low bore height, the gas-locked system, the grip angle, or a combination- you fire a shot and it's back on target NOW.
-The trigger is great. It's very 1911-like, which makes it easy for me when I switch between those guns.
-The sights are OK. They have white three inserts, which I could live without, but they are OK. Tritium sights for the P7 are out there if you want.
-I've never had a malfunction with a P7. I'll have to look up the round count through my M8, but it's a bunch. It feeds everything I've tried. I use it to shoot up the junk that won't feed in other guns. The magazine sits as close to vertical as you'll see, which makes the cases feed almost straight into the chamber.
If it just shot well and was reliable, I could put up with a lot of thngs I didn't like. But I don't have to, because it has a lot of other good thngs about it.
The ergonomics are great. It handles fast, point well, the controls are easy and fast to use.
-The grip is "flat" feeling, but I don't recall hearing any complaints.
-The squeeze-cocker may seem odd (because it IS odd) but it's quick to pick up because it's pretty natural. You take a firing grip and you cock the gun. Relax your grip, and you decock the gun.
-The mag release on the PSP models is a European type heel release, which is clumsy to some people. I don't like it, but do better with it than I thought I would. At least they made it "backwards" from some other guns in that it is rocked down and forward to release the mag instead of having to pull it aft. It's fairly natural to sweep your weak hand thumb down across the mag catch as you take that hand off the grip.
When doing a Tactical Reload, it's not bad at all since you are working right there anyway.
-The mag catch on the P7M8 and P7M13 is a small paddle (ambidextrous)similar to that on HK's later USP series. I find it quick and easy to use my index finger. I might have thought it would a hard transition between my M8 and my 1911s and HiPowers, but I don't find that to be the case...somehow.
But some people find it harder to get used to than the squeeze-cocker, so keep that in mind.
-The slide release couldn't be easier.
I don't usually use the slide stop after a slide-lock reload with any gun, choosing to draw the slide back instead (to keep things the same on every gun), but if you do- it's impossible to miss the P7 slide release. It's the squeeze-cock lever. With the slide locked open, you squeeze the squeeze-cocker and it slams closed.
It's a great carry gun.
-It's that right size where it's small enough to carry like nothing, but big enough to shoot easily.
-It's a flat gun, which I always like for carry. There are no big controls on the sides, only a small bump or two.
-It's stubby, even though the barrel is a decent length at over 4". It gets that way because the barrel is set back farther in the frame than most guns.
The bad stuff (aside from not shooting the 45ACP or holding about 20 rounds):
-I hate the slide stop with a passion.
It's a little tab behind the trigger guard (LH side) that you press rearward while holdng the slide open. It's pretty awkward. I've never had a malfunction of any type in a P7, but if I should ever get one that required me to lock the slide open to clear, I'm in trouble (actually, I'll just be glad I usually have a second gun).
Maybe it isnt so bad, but it stands out because the gun is so easy to operate otherwise.
I guess it's out of the way.
The two complaints you usually hear from people about the P7 are:
1- Heating, and,
2- The unique method of operation.
They do get hot.
But I don't think it's as bad as I've heard some have made it out.
The gas system is a neat system and works well.
But the gas cylinder is located directly above the trigger guard opening and that area right above your finger can get hot.
I don't notice much heating with my M8. The M8 has a larger trigger guard with a plastic heat shield along the top of the trigger opening. It takes a lot fewer shots through the PSP to bother me.
But it still takes about 50 rounds for me to even notice it with the PSP, unless I'm shooting really fast. By then, I need to load mags and maybe change targets anyway, so the gun gets a little cool-down.
I sure don't see it being a problem as a defensive gun.
Some say it makes it less desireable as a range gun, but that doesn't really matter to me. I have more guns to shoot while it cools.
I used the M8 in a class last fall where I shot 530 rounds in about 5 hours of actual shooting time. I survived, didn't set myself on fire when I reholstered (IWB) etc.
-The other commonly heard negative of the P7 concerns it's "unique manual of arms". I don't know how many times I've been told "If you're going to carry a P7, then carry ONLY a P7". The thinking is that you will need it under stress (when else?), forget how it works, and fail to cock it.
During the time I didn't own one, that made sense to me.
Then I got one.
I don't see it.
I've already said the P7's operation is very natural. You take a firing grip, and you cock it. Regardless of which gun I'm shooting, I take a firm firing grip before pressing the trigger. With the P7, that cocks it.
I also sweep my thumb across the area where the thumb safety would be on a 1911/HiPower, which doesn't hurt a thing on the P7.
A lot of other people have shot my P7s (they draw a crowd) and none had trouble. I explained how it worked and let them at it.
Plus- some have shot it again months later. They picked it up and shot it just fine. None failed to cock it, even after going for months without even seeing a P7.
I don't see a problem switching guns as long as you are familiar with both.
So as far as I'm concerned, of those two things that I hear the most:
-The unique operation is a non-issue to me.
-The heating problem is real, but it's not terrible, and I can deal with it.
Also:
Some people think they...
- are too complicated, and have more parts in them than a Swiss watch...
- or they are too heavy...
The "more parts than a Swiss watch" thing: I can see how people would think that. If you take either grip panel off the gun, it looks like there are fifty parts right there. If there are that many there, there must be a thousand parts total, huh?
The thing is...when you take the grips off, you are looking at most of the gun's parts. There isn't much going on elsewhere. There is no barrel link system, barrel bushing, guide rod, or slide stop pin. The ignition system is pretty simple, and you are looking right at it. There is no firing pin safety system inside the slide.
I forget the exact count now, but a P7 has just maybe five or so more parts than a 1911- and the 1911 is about as uncomplicated as it gets. The P7 has about the same number of parts as many DA autos. I think the S&Ws may have a few more parts.
-People do complain about it's weight.
It has a steel frame, which makes it grip-heavy, so maybe it feels heavier than it really is to some.
But if you compare it's weight to similar 8+1 9mms, it falls right in line. The HK P7M8 weighs 27.25 oz on my scale. The Sig P239 weighs 25.2 oz, and the S&W 3913 is 26 oz. That makes the P7 2 oz heavier than the Sig and 1.25 oz more than the S&W.
I don't think that's much at all, and the HK is the only one with a steel frame. I have nothing against aluminum frames, but if I can have a steel frame for 2 oz or less added weight, I'll take it.
Like every other gun made, the P7 has good points and bad. Gunshop commandos will tell you it's either an automatic death ray or a gun that will get you killed. The truth is somewhere in the middle.
I think the good far outweighs the bad.
Joined
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160 Posts
No problem.
I first read about them in 1981, and wanted to try one from that point on. Since all of my friends were too cheap to buy one for me to play with, I had to wait until I could get my own. That took 20 years.
During that time, I tried to read all I could about them and talk to anyone who ever had one. After I got a P7, I found that I my experiences with it differed from a lot of the info out there- mainly from what was in print. I felt a lot of it was fact-based, but greatly exaggerated.
Talk to some people, or read their articles, and you might think the gun was so complicated to operate that you should be required to take a graduate course in them before shooting. It's different, but not complicated.
If I can make the thing work, it can't be that bad.
Others act like you can't shoot it without having an ice bucket handy to dunk it in after each magazine.
They do get hot after buzzing through about 50 rounds quickly, but I usually heard about the heating from people who only owned two magazines. They must refill magazines awful fast.
I used my M8 in a class last fall that was one day long and required 500 rounds. The actual shooting time, minus lecture, lunch, etc, was about five hours. I ran through 530 rounds in that time. That's about the most I will ever shoot in the least amount of time.
It got hot, but I lived. I never set my butt on fire when reholstering with my IWB holster.
Admittedly, it would have been tougher if using my PSP.
Anyway-
They aren't perfect, but they aren't too bad, either.
They are what they are, no more and no less- A pretty slick little gun.
I first read about them in 1981, and wanted to try one from that point on. Since all of my friends were too cheap to buy one for me to play with, I had to wait until I could get my own. That took 20 years.
During that time, I tried to read all I could about them and talk to anyone who ever had one. After I got a P7, I found that I my experiences with it differed from a lot of the info out there- mainly from what was in print. I felt a lot of it was fact-based, but greatly exaggerated.
Talk to some people, or read their articles, and you might think the gun was so complicated to operate that you should be required to take a graduate course in them before shooting. It's different, but not complicated.
If I can make the thing work, it can't be that bad.
Others act like you can't shoot it without having an ice bucket handy to dunk it in after each magazine.
They do get hot after buzzing through about 50 rounds quickly, but I usually heard about the heating from people who only owned two magazines. They must refill magazines awful fast.
I used my M8 in a class last fall that was one day long and required 500 rounds. The actual shooting time, minus lecture, lunch, etc, was about five hours. I ran through 530 rounds in that time. That's about the most I will ever shoot in the least amount of time.
It got hot, but I lived. I never set my butt on fire when reholstering with my IWB holster.
Admittedly, it would have been tougher if using my PSP.
Anyway-
They aren't perfect, but they aren't too bad, either.
They are what they are, no more and no less- A pretty slick little gun.
Joined
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160 Posts
And it gets regurgitated back to us.
I'm pretty convinced that a lot of the things I hear from people about the P7 came from an article, not from personal experience. And then they get passed around and repeated again and again. Unlike a commonly seen gun like the 1911, there aren't but about a dozen or so articles on the P7, and most are 20 years old. I've heard people make statements about the P7 and I can tell you what magazine they read it in since I recognize it being word for word identical.
For having existed for 25 years, there aren't that many P7s out there...yet there sure are a lot of people who can tell you alllllll about them. It just doesn't add up.
I'm pretty convinced that a lot of the things I hear from people about the P7 came from an article, not from personal experience. And then they get passed around and repeated again and again. Unlike a commonly seen gun like the 1911, there aren't but about a dozen or so articles on the P7, and most are 20 years old. I've heard people make statements about the P7 and I can tell you what magazine they read it in since I recognize it being word for word identical.
For having existed for 25 years, there aren't that many P7s out there...yet there sure are a lot of people who can tell you alllllll about them. It just doesn't add up.
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