1911 Forums : 1911Talk banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
366 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
For those of you who dont know I work the firearms counter at a major sporting goods retailer. I have seen just about every mistake you can think of on the 4473 and I am usually a good sport about it. However because I am selling firearms and it is ultimately my decision weather or not to sell someone a gun there are time that I do refuse to sell to some people.

Case in point.

On form 4473 there is a spot where it asks for place of birth and gives the options;

US city/state | Foreign Country

The gentleman in question answered

US city/state | Foreign Country
Yes | No

I informed him that due to this and a number of other mistakes on his form I could not sell him a firearm. The entire time I was trying very hard not to laugh at him.

I understand that the form is a little confusing for some people and I am not allowed to tell them that they are to dumb to own a firearm, but this was just way to much. After he left I laughed for 5 minutes, I do kinda feel bad now about it but I'm not doing 10 years in jail because someone doesnt have the reading comprehension skills to answer that particular question correctly.
 
G

·
If you're that stupid you're a danger to yourself and others. Good choice, Red.

Current State: kinda hugry....

Address: no, I prefer pants

Sex: yes, please

:nuts:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,367 Posts
I agree with Kyle, if he couldn't figure out the correct way to answer those, he definitely doesn't need a gun LOL.

I also agree with what else Kyle said :dancingbananna:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,029 Posts
That was like today i went shooting and they had 2 people call in a row basically to do a straw purchase WTF
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,072 Posts
I agree that someone should be smart enough to fill out the form and straw purchasers I hope get bit in the butt as it can only be bad for the rest of us if they get caught but let me give a version of someone filling out a forum that has filled out a lot of them.

When I picked up the p220 the other day there was a new "kid" working there. I say kid because he looked about 12 but the older I get the younger these guys look so I am sure he was years older. I have filled out a lot of these and have filled out 10 or so in this particular store, which has begun turning over guys working there lately after having some employees for years, and started telling me what to put in each box. I explained that i have filled out a lot of them and a number of them in this particular store and I knew how. I said it nicely. When I started filling it out he still found the need to tell me when I was at each box what to put in it. I stopped and stared at him until he went away then when I gave to him he looked at it and said "Great, you have it filled out right". Now I understand some have problems with it, as stated above, but I I tell someone I know how to fill it out then they can take my word for it and if I don't then give me crap about it. I also told him off the bat the I have a UPN and that alone should tell him that I am no stranger to it and the nics system in general. I am still the only that uses, or has ever, used a upn there.

So it goes both ways. There are morons on both sides.:)

To top it off when I gave him my lay away paper I gave him my debit card and said you probably need to run this and make sure I have the money first. He then apparently lost my card, which he claims I never gave him, and I had to go straight to the bank and cancel it after paying with check. The manager looked at the tape and said it was "inconclusive" and I have known him for a long time so I probably will go back at some point but I will not deal with this kid. I don't think he was stealing it, just a moron. There's another guy that's really knowledgeable that I should have dealt with in the first place.
 

·
I need a vacation
Joined
·
1,301 Posts
What's confusing is that I am John L Pxxx III. There's no box to check if you're the Third. Some people have me write my first name as "John,III" and some people have me write my last name as Pxxx, III. I've never had a problem but it's kinda funny that nobody ever knows what to do when I ask them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
366 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I have people tell me they know how to fill it out and they still make mistakes, however if someone tells me they have a UPN I just walk away. But I have only had 3 people who have UPN's. The regular customers dont have to listen to my little speech but almost everyone else does. It just makes my life easier not having to deal with a form that has a bunch of lineouts and dated initials on it.

I know some folks know how to fill it out, and anyone who takes their time and reads it shouldnt have a problem. But unfortunatly it seems like only about 1 out of 10 people read it.
 

·
Old Sheepdog
Joined
·
772 Posts
I work part time at a local gunshop,indoor range and have called in my share of 4473's. The UPN is an identifying number you can apply for if you get delayed a lot. Some people have names that are similar, or identical to bad people and their purchase gets delayed until they are cleared by the NICS.

I am a "JR" and put that after my last name. If you are a "III" then that would be put after your last name. When calling in a 4473 they always ask "Is there anything after the last name?"

As far as stupid goes: I had this gangbanger type try and buy a gun. In filling out his 4473 he did not know how to spell his middle name - Christopher. How stupid is that? He got delayed, I don't know if he ever got the gun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
692 Posts
Just a comment on 'stupid'...
Back when I was producing educational videos for industry, we ALWAYS had to write scripts for the 3rd grade level!

Almost every study done to evaluate the learning levels of the general public, comes back with the 3rd grade - some the 5th.
I'm not a bit surprised that the filling out ANY form is such a chore for some.
The sheep are not so smart.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,072 Posts
The point is though that it works both ways. You guys think customers are morons and we think people working in the shops are morons. Nothing like walking into a gun shop, walking up to the counter and asking what used 1911's they have and being asked back "It doesn't matter what kind of gun as long as it was made in 1911?". I had that actually happen and all I could say is "there must be someone here that knows something about guns since this is a gun shop". You get a lot of customers that are too dumb to buy a gun and we get a lot of gun shop workers that are too dumb to be working there.

I have been to a lot of gun shops and in the small gun shops the owner usually runs it and knows his stuff. The bigger ones, pawn shops and chain stores where the owner does not run it may have one person that knows maybe 50% of what someone should know to sell guns and the rest shouldn't even be selling burgers at mickey d's. It's unbelievable the bs that flows out from behind those counters.

The moral of the story is that the ratio of smart customers to dumb customers couldn't possibly be any worse than the ratio of smart gun store workers to dumb gun store workers. Ever get a customer that goes in and treats the guys working there like morons? Not any different than the counter guys treating the customers like morons.

That's just the way it works though, we look at gun transactions from different directions. I swear though from where I am looking 80-90% of them shouldn't be back there in the first place. I quit even going to the chain places as they alway have something totally ridiculous to say.



I have people tell me they know how to fill it out and they still make mistakes, however if someone tells me they have a UPN I just walk away. But I have only had 3 people who have UPN's. The regular customers dont have to listen to my little speech but almost everyone else does. It just makes my life easier not having to deal with a form that has a bunch of lineouts and dated initials on it.

I know some folks know how to fill it out, and anyone who takes their time and reads it shouldnt have a problem. But unfortunatly it seems like only about 1 out of 10 people read it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
366 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
I must admit I hear a lot of bad things from customers about the folks behind the counter at other shops. Where I work we actually have shooters working behind the counter and none of us are afraid of saying "I dont know". When it comes to sporting shotguns I get to repeat that phrase quite often, thankfully one of the guys I work with knows them inside and out. In our little group we all have our little niche and know it fairly well. None of are experts in anything but we are all regular shooters and do have a good bit of knowledge on our particular subject.

The best part is that we are encouraged to shoot everything we can get our hands on, and the company sends us to the show every year where all of our distributors have their products ready for us to actually put rounds downrange. I can tell you with certainty that I never again want to fire a 2 inch S&W500.

BTW, regardless of how they fill out the form, what mistakes are made, or anything else I always treat everyone respectfully regardless of how they react to the way I have to do my job. I understand that people dont like being told that they cant buy something, therefor I do everything in my power to lay the blame at the feet of the BATFE :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Worked part time at a sporting store many moons ago, had my back to the counter working on something and a gent asked me to help him fill out the form, when I reached for it and started showing him how to fill it out, he said. " oh, I'm sorry I didn't realize you didn't know I was blind,"
I looked at him squarely and by god yes he was, I told him after getting the counter manager he couldn't buy a gun here since he couldn't fill out a form,
That was a mistake, I was keeping a handicapped person from exercising their rights.
I told'm to hell with it, if they're gonna sell blind people guns, why don't we sell'm ammo that wont' fit.
No body got it.
they weren't in business long, kinda funny now that I think about it.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top