Hello everyone! Thoughts on the 9x25 Dillon?

Discussion in 'Fusion Firearms' started by bigscotthazen, May 23, 2009.

  1. bigscotthazen

    bigscotthazen New Member

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    Hi everyone, I am new to post, but have been reading for awhile. I have three 1911's, Kimber Tactical Custom II in .45, and two Dan Wessons PM7 and CBOB in 10mm. I am thinking of a long range medium game hunter and target gun. I have been looking at Bobs work with longslides and was wondering about that 9x25 Dillon that DoubleTap sells. Any ideas? I am thinking black frame with tactical rail and scope mount in ion bond, stainless accents and slide with two barrels in 9x25 Dillon and 10mm. Thoughts and opinions welcome.
  2. tsp45acp

    tsp45acp Old Sheepdog Forum Supporter

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    First----Welcome to the forum.


    Call Bob & Dale. They can answer all your questions. I think a longslide in 9X25 would work great. Little recoil & tons of velocity. Tracy
  3. Threechevrons

    Threechevrons New Member

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    I for one, would love to see that build.
    :notworthy:

    Why would you want 2 barrels? Preference for the 10?
  4. bigscotthazen

    bigscotthazen New Member

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    I have been collecting 10mms since I first obtained my permit 17 years ago. My first was a sweet S&W 1026 that was stolen last summer along with a pair of Glocks (20&29) among others (10 guns in all). I am buying back my collection as money permits. I currently have a Glock 29, S&W 610 4" barrel and the previously mentioned Wessons in 10mm. I reload for it and was thinking of a 6" longslide in 10mm for hunting. I like the looks of the Kimber CDP but own a Kimber and don't think they are worth the extra cost over the Dan Wesson or S&W 1911's (I miss my DK1911). I would love to try a custom 1911 next.
  5. bigscotthazen

    bigscotthazen New Member

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    Oh and thanks for the welcome Tracy, its great to read the conversations you guys have here. Very nice to see the opinions voiced and discussed without the juvenile retorts that I see on other post sites. Scott
  6. Jingles

    Jingles Member

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    I think the biggest problem with the 9x25mm is going to be finding bullets that will hold up at uber velocities; kinda like the 10mm. I load for the 10mm (G20 & G20 SF), also with KKM 6" barrel, plus the .400 CorBon and .38Super. What I like about the Super is that it can be handloaded using 9mm, .356cal and .357mag design bullets. The 124gr/125gr JHPs hold up well running in the mid 1400s, but I don't know at what velocity they'll break down.

    Bullet life in game animals is about two revolutions and this pic gives an example of cavitation levels based upon bullet construction;
    [​IMG]

    Here's an example of .40 S&W bullet designs after penetrating one water bottle and terminating in caliche clay (like cement). Both the 165gr Gold Dot on the left and 165gr Golden Saber (right) were loaded with 12.0grs AA #7/10mm. The GS retained its original weight and showed optimum expansion; however, the GD weighed in at 142.0grs with the forward part of the bullet blown off.

    [​IMG]

    Going back to the 9x25mm, you would need to test different 9mm bullet designs at a much higher velocity design difference than the .40S&W/10mm difference.

    Speer states their 155gr Gold Dot is designed for high velocity. Pic is modest .400 CorBon velocity (L) one water bottle/caliche clay test, (R) is straight water bottle/s test - 0.641".
    [​IMG]

    Handloaded, the .38Super is no slouch and I've carried this caliber in active mountain lion areas in a concealable M1911 platform - liver sized groups at 160yds with practice FMJs.

    This 9mm 147gr Winchester JHP notched bullet loaded at .38Super velocities blew this very large hole in 1/2" pressed wood that was holding a 1/10" hard steel barrier and four one gallon water bottles;
    [​IMG]

    Here are some recoil numbers comparing a M1911/.38Super vs G17/9mm;

    G17 – 22oz. 124gr Golden Saber 1273fps; 8.6grs HS-7
    Recoil = 9.21ft/lbs, 20.8fps.
    147gr Winchester JHP notched 1164fps, 6.6grs 3N38
    Recoil = 9.55ft/lbs, 21.1fps

    Now an example of gunpowder manipulation to control slide speed/recoil, by changing powder burn rates from HS-7 to WSF, slightly more velocity is gained using less powder and resulting in less recoil.

    M1911 Colt – 39oz. .38 Super

    124gr Golden Saber 1445fps, 9.7grs HS-7;
    Recoil = 6.7ft/lbs, 13.29fps.

    124gr Golden Saber 1455fps, 8.0grs WSF,
    Recoil = 6.22ft/lbs, 12.81fps.

    If you finally decide on the 9x25mm build; it'll be interesting to see which bullets hold up the best. :)

    Keep in touch.

    Bob
  7. bigscotthazen

    bigscotthazen New Member

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    Bob, first I would like to thank you for the time and effort explaining all of this to me. I am new at the hyper velocity semi's and find all that information both interesting and daunting. I am not too worried about recoil, as one of my favorite guns to shoot is a 4" S&W 500. I have a shoulder holster and if I were to go into bad bear country would probably just strap that on with some 300gr hornady ftx loads. For high velocity 9x25 Dillon loads I was thinking of just some quality fmjs for paper or the barnes solid copper for hunting/defense. I have had good luck with the Barnes X in the 500 and can't see where the Dillon would be that much worse. I may be wrong though, any ideas? The reason I have looked at the Dillon instead of a 38 super has more to do with the interchangeability with a normal 10mm gun. I am tempted to try a Bar sto barrel in my glock before jumping into a full custom. What I am after is a carry gun capable of 150 yd performance.
  8. TimHecht

    TimHecht Member

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    9x25 Dillon?

    I have a Glock 29 with 4 barrels: 10mm, .40 S&W, .357 Sig, and 9x25 Dillon.

    [​IMG]

    Only the 9x25 Dillon barrel is ported. It is a great shooting cartridge; a 10mm case necked down to 9mm. I have it loaded with the Double Tap 125 grain Speer Gold Dots at 1,600 or so fps. Very manageable and an accurate round. Dillon developed it for competitive shooting to make major caliber with a 9mm bullet. It is flat shooting and hits hard and I like it. I bet in my Delta Elite, if I could get a barrel it would be a great carry round...
  9. TurboFC3S

    TurboFC3S New Member

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    I took a nice sized buck last winter with a 10mm longslide Fusion at about 70 yards, bullet was a 180gr Remington Golden Saber. I didn't think to photo or weigh the bullet after removed, but the jacket was intact and it looked like it retained the vast majority of it's weight. I was very pleased with it's performance. Although if Barnes had some 180gr solid copper bullets I'd use those for hunting, certainly not plinking though!

    The 9x25 looks to be a pretty cool round too, wonder if it has armor pentration of something like a 7.62x25, or if it's diameter is too big? Does anybody make a 147gr solid copper .355 bullet? If so I bet that would be the ticket for 9x25 hunting.
  10. DaleF

    DaleF New Member

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    Hi guys..

    I mentioned to Bob tonight about the 9x25 issue being discussed here. He told me to tell you guys that right now we are very busy :)biggrin:) getting orders filled and the 9x25 caliber may have to wait. He did say that the possibility in the not to distant future is something to think about.

    Keep the ideas coming though, we are listening!:flag:

    Dale.
  11. Jingles

    Jingles Member

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    That's my favorite 10mm load; handloaded from a 6" barrel about 1375fps.

    Soft steel was penetrated at this very shallow angle;
    [​IMG]

    Factory .40S&W Remington 180gr JHP did not penetrate this steel barrier when placed at a 45 degree angle.

    Steel had a gaping hole with four exploded one gallon water bottles;
    [​IMG]

    GS separated from jacket, .720" expansion;
    [​IMG]

    From a 4.6" barrel, 10mm doesn't have the same performance.

    Bob
  12. Jingles

    Jingles Member

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    Several years ago Mike McNett (DT ammo) posted chronographed load data at GlockTalk, I downloaded some of his ballistic gel data. I question his 10mm/165gr Gold Dot data because this weight GD doesn't seem to perform well at high velocity;

    The most interesting comparison I see in his data results are identical penetration/expansion results between the 10mm/180gr Gold Dot and .45auto/230gr Gold Dot.

    Given the 275fps difference between the .357SIG/125gr Gold Dot and 9x25mm; there's only a 1/2" greater penetration from the Dillon - go figure. :confused:

    Regarding the poor performance of the .357mag/125gr Gold Dot, Brass Fetcher tested Speer's loading;

    Have fun with the numbers. :hairpull: :biggrin:

    Bob
  13. bigscotthazen

    bigscotthazen New Member

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    Seems I opened a hornets nest here. I mentioned two barrels earlier because I planned on the 10mm for hunting and the 9x25 for target. bullet performance i.e. expansion is not important on steel plates at 150 yds... just as long as they hit and go ding.. lol. I am thankful for all the information though, you guys are very helpful. Dale, thanks for the input on the build. I know you guys are busy at Fusion and will probably order the gun in 10mm and have it retrofitted if you every play around with the 9x25 Dillon. I am sure the 10mm long slide will keep me smiling for many trips to the sandpit for potato assassination.
  14. tsp45acp

    tsp45acp Old Sheepdog Forum Supporter

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    Just to throw a monkey wrench into the mix,....check out the 38Casull. 45acp necked down to a 9mm bullet. Over 2000 fps! Tracy
  15. bigscotthazen

    bigscotthazen New Member

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    I did a little research and the 38 casull is very interesting. I think for my personal use, the 9x25 is more practical. They research I found all stated the brass was heavier than normal 45 or strengthened. Something like the 45 super I suppose. I have a few thousand 10mm empties lying around, so financially it would make more sense. Very interesting info though, the more I look into this, the more wildcats I have found. I guess it just goes to show the versatility of the 1911! whooo hooo!
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